PowerfulJREJRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing
PowerfulJRE
Introducing Ethyn Ewing and his nickname 0:01
Joe Rogan opens by admiring Ethyn Ewing's shirt from his own clothing line, Professor Finesser, which Ewing describes as one design among several symbols he wants to build into a bigger brand. Ewing explains the nickname came about in a funny way but fits perfectly, since it captures both his fighting mantra and who he is as a person.
The short-notice UFC debut 0:30
Rogan brings up Ewing's UFC debut against Malcolm Wellmaker, a heavily hyped knockout puncher who had finished opponents on the Contender Series and against Chris Moutino. Ewing took the fight on two days notice, moving up from bantamweight to face a featherweight, yet fought with a calmness and technical smoothness that impressed Rogan, who says nobody had heard of Ewing before that night.
Fighting with finesse over brawling 1:31
Ewing says he prides himself on technical, controlled striking rather than trading punches, calling it silly to just see who can absorb more damage before the other person drops. He states plainly that champions do not take return fire, and that his approach of hitting without getting hit is meant to give him longevity in the sport. Rogan agrees this is the real formula for a long career, contrasting it with crowd-pleasing brawlers whose careers end badly and whose coaches and organizations often let them fight long past the point they should stop.
The trap of exciting but reckless styles 4:30
Both agree that face-first, all-out attacking styles draw big crowd reactions because fans enjoy the chaos and bloodshed, but this comes at the cost of the technical mastery that martial arts is supposed to be about. Ewing points to Roman Puga's recent Contender Series fight, where both men ended up in the hospital despite being skillful, exciting to watch but dangerous for the fighters themselves. He contrasts this with the precise, boxing-influenced style he prefers, calling the pursuit of landing damage while avoiding it in return the true art of striking.
Adesanya as the model of finesse 6:30
Rogan cites Israel Adesanya at his best as the ultimate example of stylish, finesse-based fighting, describing it as almost a dance where Adesanya used feints to gauge reactions before landing his strikes. Both agree MMA is fundamentally a smart man's game rather than a tough man's game, and Rogan says he wishes more young fighters modeled themselves on technical fighters like Ewing instead of chasing knockout of the night moments that leave them scarred later.
Blending Iowa wrestling grit with technical finesse 9:32
Ewing traces his evolution from a wrestling background rooted in the aggressive Iowa style, which emphasizes breaking an opponent down physically and mentally through relentless pressure, to a more finesse-driven approach focused on distance, low heart rate, and picking shots. He explains he once leaned too far into pure technicality, avoiding physical exchanges entirely, but has now found a middle ground where he lets go of ego in the gym, engages physically when needed, and still keeps his precise, finesse-based habits intact.
Letting go of ego to improve faster 11:30
Rogan and Ewing discuss how training should be about learning rather than winning every sparring session, and that real improvement comes from forcing yourself into uncomfortable positions instead of protecting your ego. Ewing mentions training with the Ruotolo brothers at Eric Pollston's gym, praising their chaotic, scrambling, highly technical jiu-jitsu style built around relentless attacks on the neck, and both note how their long arms and athleticism make them exceptional, with both brothers now moving into MMA competition.
Performance enhancement in grappling and boxing power 15:00
The conversation shifts to how enhanced many elite jiu-jitsu competitors are, with Rogan noting that testing is often absent at events like those in Abu Dhabi, and citing Gordon Ryan's open admission that most competitors use performance-enhancing drugs while insisting his technical skill was already elite before any of that. They then discuss one-punch knockout power as a natural gift, using Deontay Wilder, described by Teddy Atlas as the great eraser of his own mistakes, and Naoya Inoue as examples of fighters whose power alone can end a fight instantly, while wondering how much more dangerous Wilder would be if he also moved like Tyson Fury or Usyk.
Cardio, calmness, and why some fighters gas out 22:01
Rogan and Ewing debate what really drives fight-ending gas tanks, using Max Holloway's comments about Conor McGregor and Jose Aldo fading due to the energy cost of explosive power, but Ewing pushes back by noting Conor's cardio looked fine at featherweight and only became a problem after moving up in weight and changing his diet and training discipline. They agree cardio is not simple stamina alone but also about staying calm and efficient, snapping punches instead of tensing up, and that experienced fighters like Max Holloway know precisely when to push pace and when to conserve energy by watching subtle signs like an opponent's mouth opening or sloppier movement.
Max Holloway and the Cut to Featherweight 25:33
You talk about how Conor McGregor chose to return from five years off against Max Holloway, a guy who never fades and constantly fights the best in the world. The conversation turns to Ilia Topuria, who caught Max after Max had ballooned up to 155 to fight Justin Gaethje and then had to starve himself back down to 145, leaving him weaker than during his prime featherweight days when he maintained the lower weight year-round. Topuria's win over Charles Oliveira, who was fighting at a big 155 himself, gets held up as proof of his combination of smooth technique and one-punch power, especially striking when you consider how much smaller he looks standing next to bigger men like Justin Gaethje.
Comparing Muay Thai and MMA Striking 27:30
Ethyn Ewing explains that his Muay Thai background gives him a different lens on MMA, noting how the threat of a takedown can wreck a striker's composure and force sloppy exchanges that get them ducked under and taken down. He argues boxers generally have better distance control and setup work with the jab, and he criticizes how many MMA fighters skip the jab entirely in favor of a big overhand right. He praises Topuria specifically for sitting on his back foot, using the jab to measure range, and then unleashing power once he's found it.
Justin Gaethje's Damage and Recovery 30:00
The discussion shifts to the brutal damage Topuria did to Justin Gaethje, including two fractured orbitals that stopped the fight between rounds. Both agree recovery will take real time, with Ewing estimating six months before Gaethje should even spar again, and both stress the mental challenge for a fighter who has always felt untouchable once that aura is broken, citing Jose Aldo as an example of a great champion who was never quite the same after his first loss.
The Danger of Rushing Back 32:02
Alexander Volkanovski comes up as a cautionary tale, having taken a short-notice rematch against Islam Makhachev, getting knocked out with a head kick, and then fighting Topuria only four months later while clearly out of shape and undertrained. Both speakers agree that legacy fighters shouldn't need to rush back into dangerous fights, and that Volkanovski's decision to accept that title fight while not in real training was a mistake.
Ewing's Own Short-Notice Fights 33:30
Ewing recounts fighting Malcolm Wellmaker on 48 hours' notice at Madison Square Garden, made possible because he'd stayed in fight-camp shape year-round and had actually competed the weekend before, knocking someone out in a minute and thirty seconds. He credits that recent fight experience with making the sudden turnaround manageable, unlike Conor McGregor's five-year layoff, which visibly affected his energy and mindset going into the Holloway fight.
Fight Frequency as a Double-Edged Sword 36:30
Joe Rogan notes that Israel Adesanya defended his middleweight title three times in a single year, far more than the handful of title fights that have happened at 185 since he lost the belt. This leads to a broader question about whether fighting too often, as Merab Dvalishvili was doing before losing to Petr Yan in their rematch, can eventually work against a fighter. Ewing points to boxing's more businesslike approach, citing Floyd Mayweather's control over fight conditions, and argues MMA fighters lean more toward a "fight anyone, anytime" toughness that isn't always the smartest long-term strategy.
A Freak Training Injury 40:01
Ewing describes tearing his meniscus during a light sparring session with heavyweight Cathal Pinto ahead of his fight with Raphael Esten, when a routine butterfly guard scramble went wrong. He notes the injury lingered for months, limiting his grappling in camp, and Rogan responds that sparring partners should never be more than about ten pounds heavier. Both agree MMA carries far more injury risk than boxing simply because there are more weapons and positions that can go wrong.
Anderson Silva as a Turning Point 43:31
Rogan frames Ewing's breakout performances against Esten and Wellmaker as the kind of thing nobody had seen before, comparable to how Anderson Silva looked alien when he first emerged. They recall Silva's demolition of Chris Leben and his rise in Cage Rage, including a memorable spinning-style kick against Yoshihiro Akiyama's teammate Okami, and the story of Silva secretly practicing his elbow technique at home on pillows after his coach told him to stop, a technique he later used to knock someone out.
Lee Murray and Silva's Artistry 46:32
The conversation covers Lee Murray, the British fighter who beat Jorge Rivera by triangle choke before later becoming infamous for orchestrating the biggest cash robbery in UK history. Anderson Silva's demolition of Murray, built heavily on leg kicks, gets described as artistic, a word both agree captures how he made elite opponents look outclassed. They stress judging fighters by their peak years rather than their later, more cautious performances.
Front Kicks and Modern Striking Tactics 48:32
Rogan recalls Silva's historic knockout of Vitor Belfort with a front kick to the face, the first of its kind in the UFC, which normalized a technique now used constantly because it's hard to see coming up the middle. Ewing shares his own preference for front kicks and side kicks to the liver, and describes tactics he was developing for an opponent who reliably throws calf kicks from a controlled stance, including plans to counter with a front kick off the lead leg or a straight strike off the back leg timed to an opponent's forward pressure.
The Dutch style calf kick 50:31
Ethyn explains his preference for throwing the calf kick like a soccer kick, raising the shin straight up into the soft calf rather than smacking it with the foot. This requires closing a bit more distance than a longer range kick, but he considers it safer once it is set up properly with other strikes.
Yuki Yoza and the art of leg kicks 51:00
The conversation turns to Yuki Yoza, praised as a technical model for the calf kick, throwing it with no pivot, no tell, and from every angle, whether off the jab or the left hook. They highlight his trick of throwing a half-speed kick, holding the leg, and tripping the opponent, a move that got him in trouble in kickboxing. They then discuss how Jonathan Hagerty solved the Yoza puzzle by constantly switching stances, throwing knees to the body, and never staying still long enough for Yoza to set up his kicks, winning a decision that Ewing calls a real blueprint for fighting that style. Ewing notes that MMA still lags behind in defending calf kicks, with many fighters willingly eating them, and that the difference between taking one with shin guards versus bare shins in a fight is enormous.
Praise for ONE Championship strikers 55:01
Ewing singles out ONE Championship's Muay Thai talent, especially Azadullah Iman Gazalia, as his favorite fighter to watch. He also brings up Amiran Magamedov, a training partner of Azadullah who recently fought in the PFL with a similarly long, tall striking style, and mentions Zabit as another example of a supposed wrestler who turned out to have slick, artistic striking, including 360 kicks, from a background in a Chinese martial art before wrestling.
Long limbs and fighting styles 57:00
They discuss how being tall and long-limbed is a major advantage in MMA, allowing fighters to strike from distance and hit opponents before being hit back, as well as offering natural setups for triangles, darce chokes, and rear naked chokes. Ewing describes his own style as the opposite, working best either far outside or fully on the inside, and they note that a shorter fighter can often neutralize a taller one by closing distance, while the taller fighter wins by maintaining range.
Mike Tyson's elusiveness over size 58:31
Rogan brings up Mike Tyson as an example of how skill trumps size, noting Tyson was only 5'11 and around 215 to 220 pounds in his prime, yet overwhelmed taller heavyweights through bobbing, weaving, and constant movement. Ewing recalls a Tyson quote crediting his elusiveness, not his physical power, as his greatest asset, and both agree that casual fans often miss this artistry, attributing success to raw power rather than the chess match underneath.
Learning from his first two UFC losses 1:01:30
Ewing reflects on going undefeated as an amateur while not living a disciplined fighter's lifestyle, working nights and treating fighting casually. His first two professional UFC losses, against previously undefeated opponents, forced him to change his life outside the gym as much as inside it, and he credits that painful period with setting up his current ten fight win streak.
A knee injury and a spiral 1:04:00
Ewing traces the start of his decline to tearing his meniscus during a college wrestling dual meet, an injury his coach dismissed, telling him to suck it up. Isolated in Bristol, Tennessee, far from his Southern California home and raised strictly religious with no prior partying, he got drunk for the first time the day his last final ended and slid into drinking and partying that carried into his early fighting career.
Faith, injury, and rebuilding 1:08:00
Ewing describes an earlier ankle injury before the meniscus tear, but says the knee injury was the first to truly derail him, leaving him feeling as though God had abandoned him rather than seeing it as a test of faith. He says that maturing and deepening his relationship with God later helped him reframe that hardship as something that built him, and Rogan adds that failure is often a necessary teacher, especially for young people who need to be knocked down before rebuilding.
Meniscus surgery and knee rehab debate 1:10:00
Ewing describes having a meniscus scope that still bothers him today, unlike a later ankle and ligament injury from a leg lock that he never had surgically treated and which healed without lasting issues. Rogan notes that current research favors rehabilitation over meniscus surgery, and the two discuss low resistance stationary cycling, Poliquin step downs on plates for knee strengthening and stability, and controlled range of motion work as better long term approaches to protecting the knees.
Knee Strengthening Tricks From Training 1:15:31
You discuss unconventional strength methods borrowed from the "knees over toes" training philosophy, like walking backward on a stopped treadmill or pulling a sled with a waist strap to build knee strength and improve circulation without heavy weights. Another exercise involves a resistance band anchored in front while lunged over with the knee past the toe, extending the leg to mimic the motion of walking backward. The point is that most training emphasizes pushing forward, while backward movement patterns are underused but important for knee health. You also mention wanting to explore lateral, side-to-side strengthening for footwork and ligament resilience, referencing BJ Penn's unusual band work for flexibility and strength from odd positions.
The Marinovich Cardio Method 1:18:00
The conversation turns to Rafael dos Anjos training under Nick Kersan, a student of Marv Marinovich, the trainer who worked with BJ Penn during his prime. Marinovich's controversial approach assumed a fighter already knew how to fight, so training instead focused almost entirely on brutal plyometrics and conditioning to build an extreme gas tank. BJ hated the process but became nearly unstoppable because he never gassed. This leads into a broader point about how certain fighters, like Merab, redefine what's physically possible in a fight by bringing a superhuman gas tank that overwhelms opponents through constant, relentless pressure, a trait built over years rather than a single training camp.
Wrestling Cardio As Ultimate Foundation 1:19:30
Ethyn describes wrestling cardio as his greatest asset, built from a sport where there is no easy path and no rest, since practice partners are always grinding at full intensity. Unlike striking, where fighters find moments to breathe by controlling distance, or jiu-jitsu, where fighters can rest in certain guard positions, wrestling offers no break, especially against relentless pressure fighters. Both agree that elite wrestling cardio and mental toughness translate into an advantage across all of MMA, since a wrestler who can dictate where a fight takes place, on the feet or on the ground, holds a massive edge, particularly when paired with strong striking.
Point Karate As Hidden Weapon 1:23:00
Joe suggests that point karate, the style behind fighters like Michael "Venom" Page and Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson, gives fighters a rare ability to become nearly untouchable, citing how MVP completely stumped Kevin Holland despite Holland being competitive with everyone else he faces. Ethyn agrees and expresses interest in refining his own kicking with that kind of snap and quickness, also praising the French Savat style for its kicking mechanics. They discuss fighters like Yoel Romero conditioning their toes to strike opponents like knives, and how Conor McGregor popularized a shovel-style toe kick to the body, which carries real risk of toe fractures if blocked by an elbow.
Broken Toes And Weigh Cut Wisdom 1:25:31
They joke about Diego "Fluffy" Rodriguez's opponent's mangled toes after a fight, and Ethyn shares his own story of dislocating a pinky toe before a wrestling match. The talk shifts to weight cutting, where Ethyn explains he usually walks around near 175 to 178 pounds and cuts to about 150 the week before a fight, sometimes cutting the final ten to eleven pounds in one night. He has learned that keeping the sauna temperature lower and extending the cut over more time, while actively cooling the body with ice and removing gear between sessions, matters more than intense heat, since overheating is more dangerous and draining than dehydration itself.
Moses Itama's Costly Inexperience 1:32:01
Joe recounts the heavyweight title fight where hot prospect Moses Itama, only 21 and considered a possible successor to Mike Tyson's youngest-champion record, dominated early against Filip Hrgović but faded by the eighth round after trying to force a finish instead of boxing smart. Hrgović capitalized on Itama's exhaustion to win by exhaustion-aided knockout, fulfilling table-talk comments where he'd said the fight isn't about how hard you hit but how well you take a hit and keep coming forward, echoing a line from Rocky. Both agree this exposed Itama's lack of experience in deep water despite an otherwise stunning knockout-heavy record against lesser-tested opposition like Dillian White and Germaine Franklin.
Boxing Versus MMA Fight Culture 1:37:00
The discussion closes on how boxing carefully builds fighters through matched opposition before testing them against elite competition, while the UFC will sometimes hand a newcomer a title shot after just one fight in the organization. Joe attributes this to MMA fighters often arriving already established from wrestling, kickboxing, or other backgrounds, and being far more willing to accept short-notice, high-risk fights than boxers typically are. He also notes boxing's fragmented promotional landscape, where fans care only about the fighters and not which promoter is involved, contrasts with the UFC's singular structure, where the organization alone manages every weight class, prospect, and fight card.
Fight Cards Versus Boxing Events 1:40:30
The conversation opens with a distinction between how UFC events and boxing matches like Canelo Alvarez fights are built. Canelo's fights are scheduled around his readiness, with a card assembled around that single bout, while the UFC picks a date and location first, then fills the card with whoever is ready to fight.
Reading Hagakure and the Samurai Code 1:41:02
Ethyn Ewing describes reading Hagakure, a book centered on a samurai named Yamamoto whose lord died and forbade ritual suicide, leading him to write about how a warrior should live outside of combat. Ewing's boxing coach gave him the book during a personal limbo period, and he values it because it collects many samurai perspectives that sometimes contradict each other, letting him pick what fits his own mindset.
Screens, YouTube, and Attention 1:42:30
Ewing admits he struggles to stay off his phone, often watching YouTube content about fighting, guns, hiking, camping, hunting, and spearfishing. Joe Rogan distinguishes YouTube from social media, saying it feels like winding down rather than wasting time, unlike Instagram or Twitter. Ewing agrees, noting short-form media is destroying attention spans by constantly triggering dopamine, and he reminds himself that watching someone else spearfish isn't the same as actually living that experience.
Spearfishing and Bow Hunting Philosophy 1:45:30
Ewing talks about shore diving for spearfishing near Laguna, grabbing lobster by hand during season, and preferring the primitive challenge of bow hunting over rifle hunting, since a bow requires closing to within roughly thirty yards without being scented, unlike a rifle shot from five hundred yards. Rogan agrees, sharing that he once dropped a pig at ninety yards with a rifle despite not having fired one in two years, while a bow demands constant practice and offers a far more rewarding feeling when successful.
Wild Pig Population and Feral Transformation 1:52:30
The discussion shifts to feral pigs, with Rogan noting Texas alone has millions, and a perplexity search confirming thirty five states have documented feral swine presence, worst in Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina. They discuss how escaped domestic pigs physically change once wild, growing longer snouts, thicker fur, and larger tusks over generations, and reference "Hogzilla" along with a certified 790 pound boar captured near Deion in Comanche County in January 2015.
Ewing's Interest in Hunting and Archery 1:59:31
Ewing says he has never hunted but would like to start with deer, and mentions shooting recurve bow competitively rather than compound. Rogan recommends Performance Archery in San Diego for properly fitting a bow, comparing it to martial arts training where learning correct form early matters more than fixing bad habits later.
Self-Reliance as a Way of Life 2:02:32
Ewing explains his hobbies, making his own Kydex and leather holsters, restoring an old truck, and wanting to hunt, come from a desire for self-reliance rather than direct fight training benefit. He describes wanting land in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho with his wife and close friends, growing crops and hunting stocked game, to escape the pace of city life, while acknowledging his current team and coaches in Southern California, including Eric Pollson at CSW Fullerton, keep him based there for now.
Grabbing Hair and Shorts 2:06:01
The conversation turns to old rules and gear, with the point made that fighters should either cut their hair short or braid it tightly, since in the early UFC days grabbing hair was legal and dangerous. The same complaint extends to modern shorts, since guys still grab loose, high-slit shorts constantly, and the question is raised why anyone would wear something that gives an opponent something to grab.
Old Rule Experiments and Ground Time Limits 2:07:00
Watching old footage, they note bare-knuckle headbutts and even groin kicks were once legal, making wrestlers like Mark Coleman a nightmare since he could headbutt from inside guard. A clip from WCC, World Combat Championships, shows a floor-time countdown clock forcing fighters to be stood up after a set period on the ground, which leads to a broader complaint that standups should never happen except to punish fouls, since holding a dominant position, even against the cage, is a legitimate way of winning an exchange.
Henzo Gracie's Brutal Elbows 2:08:30
They recall a WCC fight between Henzo Gracie and a judo champion named Ben Spikers, where Henzo, irritated by phone calls from Spikers the night before, took his back and unleashed vicious elbows from rear mount, which is part of why elbows to the back of the head are illegal today. The footage also shows the old 12-to-6 elbow rule debate, with Big John McCarthy's story explaining regulators banned straight-down elbows after seeing karate brick-breaking demonstrations, believing that motion was the most dangerous strike possible, even though rotating elbows like a punch actually generate more power.
Striking Only Leagues and Promotion Growth 2:12:00
They discuss how WCC once split fighters into a grappler bracket, with ten minutes of ground time allowed, and a striker bracket, limited to two minutes with submissions banned, before pitting the winners against each other, an experiment that lasted only one tournament around 1994 or 1995. This leads into praise for One Championship's model of running separate striking-only and MMA cards, a format the speaker says he has urged Dana White to try, along with support for more organizations overall, including the PFL merger with Jake Paul's MVP and Netflix's involvement, since more options and more visibility help build MMA's overall fan base.
Conor McGregor's Uncertain Future 2:16:30
They weigh whether Conor McGregor will fight again, agreeing he still has the physical ability but questioning whether he'll rebuild the discipline and mindset that defined his prime, especially his one-punch knockout of Jose Aldo in December 2015 and his ferocious performance against Eddie Alvarez. They note both his ACLs and both meniscus have been damaged, and suggest that fighting Michael Chandler at 170 pounds, rather than cutting to 155, would be the more sensible farewell fight given how deep and dangerous that division has become with fighters like Ilia Topuria and Diego Lopes.
Chandler, Grappling Escapes, and Ilia Topuria 2:23:00
They revisit Michael Chandler's explosive but sometimes reckless style, pointing to his classic wars with Eddie Alvarez in Bellator as must-watch fights, while noting that reliance on pure aggression fades with age. The talk shifts to Ilia Topuria's creative, artistic striking and his upcoming fight against Arman Tsarukyan in LA, with both agreeing his biggest challenge is takedown defense, since his lone tough outing came against elite grappler Charles Oliveira.
Ciryl Gane's Rare Athleticism 2:28:31
Finally, they discuss Ciryl Gane as a heavyweight anomaly who moves like no one else in the division, someone who has never been visibly rocked, crediting his background playing basketball for the footwork and hand-eye coordination that let him explode and change direction so fluidly. They compare him briefly to a prime Travis Browne but conclude Gane represents an entirely new level of elite movement at heavyweight, with no real second place in that category.
Comparing Speed To Merab 2:30:30
Ethyn Ewing considers whether Hokit rivals Islam-level speed and agility, but says there is no real comparison in skill level or striking movement, even though the two share similar quickness. He adds that what Hok truly brings is elite wrestling combined with a lot of trash talking, the kind that gets opponents riled up. He points to how Conor McGregor used the same psychological pressure, making fighters like Jose Aldo and another Brazilian opponent feel they could not afford to lose, which pushed them out of their comfort zone and into overly cautious, tense fighting.
Fighting Angry Versus Fighting Loose 2:32:00
Ewing explains that fighting angry strips a fighter of skill, since rage replaces technique with wild overhand punches. He argues the mental side of fighting deserves more coaching attention, teaching fighters to guard their peace of mind, not just their technique. He believes emotional control is partly innate and partly shaped by hard life experience, and that programs can't be one size fits all.
Training Spirituality With Dale Royal 2:33:00
Ewing describes his boxing coach Dale Royal, with whom he trains in a garage, discussing spirituality, God, archery, and leatherworking alongside boxing, exploring what it means to be a warrior. He credits Eric Paulson and Ben Jones for mindset lessons and mental toughness through hardship in training, saying real composure means taking a punch without any rise in heartbeat and never deviating from the game plan. The conversation closes with well wishes and thanks between host and guest.
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