PowerfulJREJoe Rogan Experience #2561 - LL Cool J
PowerfulJRE
A friendly reunion 0:01
Joe Rogan and LL Cool J open by joking about sneakers before recalling their first meeting decades earlier at an NBC event in 1994, where LL openly mocked the stiff formality of the industry gathering while Rogan, then a newcomer, admired his confidence.
Signing with Def Jam at sixteen 2:00
LL explains he signed with Def Jam at sixteen, becoming the label's first act after Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons formed the company. He recalls that the first Def Jam Productions song was It's Yours by T La Rock, with Ad Rock of the Beastie Boys programming the beat and Rubin producing.
Growing up inside early hip-hop 4:00
LL describes hearing hip-hop tapes circulating out of the Bronx while he was a young kid in Queens and North Babylon around 1975 to 1977, getting exposed early through foster children who had come from the Bronx, Harlem, and Brooklyn.
Training jiu-jitsu for humility 5:31
LL shares that he recently took up jiu-jitsu under Brian Glick in Brooklyn, who trained under Renzo Gracie, calling it humbling because physical skill cannot be faked with charm or celebrity status, unlike much of fame.
Fame as a byproduct, not a goal 8:00
LL insists he sees himself as an artist first, someone made famous as a consequence of his work rather than someone chasing celebrity, distancing himself from the image of flashy, self-important stardom.
Reading Clausewitz and staying curious 11:32
LL talks about reading widely, including the Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz and his idea of a triangle balancing chance, reason, and passion, which LL applies to understanding society. He credits his mother's warnings about addiction and her push for him to stay sharp and curious as shaping his discipline from a young age.
Discipline Over Giving Up 14:30
LL Cool J and Rogan discuss how society today fails to embrace discipline and perseverance, mistaking emotional surrender for authenticity. LL argues that empathy is not the same as weakness, and that one bad thought can spiral into total collapse, so people must manage their moods and keep moving even when they do not feel like it. He compares life to flying a plane with an engine on fire: you keep flying rather than crashing, since giving up over one setback achieves nothing. Comfort, he says, becomes a trap, since people who finally get comfortable stop evolving and grow defensive toward ambitious people. He also urges going after dreams regardless of timelines, since three years will pass anyway, concluding that losing a battle does not mean losing the war with yourself.
Listening Past the Messenger 20:01
LL explains he values good advice regardless of who delivers it, saying even a homeless man's warning not to do push-ups in traffic is worth hearing, since bad advice can come from respected people and good advice from unlikely ones. He connects this to Bruce Lee's philosophy of absorbing what is useful. Both men praise Lee as revolutionary for blending boxing, karate, kung fu, judo, and sambo at a time when martial arts styles were strictly siloed, calling him essentially the first mixed martial artist. They discuss his 1973 death, reviewing theories including a prescribed painkiller called Equagesic, cerebral edema, possible head injuries from sparring, and later theories about heat illness or hyponatremia. They recall the book Tao of Jeet Kune Do and how Lee's speed and innovation caused karate schools to spread worldwide, though styles remained confusingly blurred at the time.
Early Hip-Hop's Impact 26:00
LL shifts to hip-hop, describing how before the 1980s it barely existed in pop culture, then suddenly dominated within a few years. He recalls first hearing Sugar Hill Gang in a rough Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts lunchroom, where some classmates were 17 and still in eighth grade. He describes growing up feeling invisible, watching your back constantly, and seeing black kids on the news almost exclusively in handcuffs. Hip-hop, he says, was the first time he heard young people like himself sound empowered, offering aspiration rather than the materialism associated with the genre today.
Jewelry and bravado as earned status 28:30
LL Cool J explains that early hip hop bravado came from being an underdog, not from having wealth. Gold chains were not about flaunting riches but about proving you had earned something and could survive wearing it in a tough neighborhood. He contrasts this with later eras where open displays of wealth turned ostentatious, more like a status show than a survival message. He compares the feeling to a Monopoly game where someone starting with nothing finally gets property and can't help smiling, explaining why hustlers and street figures shaped the mindset behind hip hop success.
Fame, isolation, and staying grounded 34:01
LL Cool J talks about the danger of fame creating a bubble of yes men, especially in Hollywood, and says he avoids that by staying active and training at the gym to stay reminded of real life. He and Rogan discuss Howard Stern as a pioneering broadcaster who nonetheless became isolated by his own fame, and LL recalls Stern giving him early support and love on air.
Hip hop's rapid rise and global reach 38:00
LL Cool J traces how fast hip hop exploded, from Sugar Hill Gang in 1979 to NWA and Public Enemy soon after. He shares that Public Enemy's logo silhouette is actually his late friend E Love, caught in a photo taken by Chuck D, and recalls touring with Run DMC and appearing on Dick Clark's show in 1985 at around seventeen years old. He describes performing in London, facing both huge crowds and some backlash for the vulnerable love song, and notes that hip hop spread worldwide early on, citing MC Solaar in France and fans in Japan rapping lyrics they couldn't otherwise speak in English.
Global music and hip-hop travels 43:01
LL Cool J talks about how touring the world changed his mindset, moving past a narrow view of other cultures once he saw kids abroad embracing graffiti, art, and hip-hop. He recorded a song in Germany rapping in English alongside a German rapper, and both he and Joe agree French hip-hop stands out as especially impressive, alongside their shared appreciation for Brazilian sounds.
Basketball as a fighting base 45:00
The conversation shifts to combat sports, with Joe pointing to heavyweight champion Ciryl Gane and kickboxer Cedric Doumbe as examples of how basketball builds elite movement for fighting. Constantly changing direction, judging distance, and coordinating hands with a moving ball, Joe argues, translates directly into striking footwork, while soccer offers similar cardio and leg-movement benefits for MMA.
Mindset, intellect, and elusive fighters 47:31
They discuss how combining athletic movement with mindset and intellect separates great fighters, citing Floyd Mayweather's ability to stand still yet remain untouchable by reading an opponent's hips and elbows. They also bring up Sweet Pea Whitaker and a little-known elusive Italian boxer named Nicolino, watching old footage together.
A boxing family discovery 49:31
LL Cool J reveals he only learned through a DNA research show with Henry Louis Gates that his adopted mother's uncle was John Henry Lewis, a Hall of Fame light heavyweight champion who later lost to Joe Louis after moving up to heavyweight.
Combat sports as soul test 51:01
Joe and LL agree that combat sports expose something deeper than skill, calling it a test of soul and comparing it to being able to read a person's rank, or true character, in their eyes.
The sword or the ball 52:00
LL recalls a scene from the samurai film Shogun Assassin where a father offers his baby son a sword or a ball, where choosing the ball means death and joining his dead mother, while the sword means survival with his father. The boy ultimately chooses the sword, and LL uses it to raise the question of how much character is destiny versus choice.
Choosing to be better 56:00
After a sponsor break, LL stresses that even if people are born with different proclivities, self-awareness lets you decide to improve, comparing it to how an amateur tells a pro that sacrifice is easy for them to say, when really people just avoid discomfort rather than facing something impossible.
Success demands real struggle 57:30
LL Cool J says people who chase success often forget that dreaming of roses still means dealing with thorns. He compares it to climbing Everest: putting in the work does not remove the bad weather, the slippery slopes, or the burning legs. Success is difficult because the challenge itself is difficult, and he feels that basic truth gets lost on people looking for quick results.
Internet life versus real life 59:00
LL argues the internet works like a script, while real life has to work on its feet, so people who only practice behind a keyboard become awkward in person. He says the internet rewards instant validation and even rewards chopping down trees in the wrong forest, while real life requires hunting in the woods and leaning your ladder against the right wall. He distinguishes streamers who create from a genuine place, like Speed, from those just performing for clicks, warning the latter may get money but will feel empty.
Being relentless and yourself 1:02:02
LL invokes Tim Grover's book Relentless, noting Grover trained Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, to argue that wanting success badly and working relentlessly is required, though that is different from things being easy. He pairs this with Oscar Wilde's line, be yourself because everybody else is taken, saying young people often know what they want but fear pursuing it if it feels different from what others expect, the same fear he faced writing a love song inside hardcore hip-hop.
Rick Rubin stripped the sound down 1:04:30
LL recalls his first album, Radio, crediting Rick Rubin as reduced by rather than produced by, since Rubin stripped hip-hop down from long, band-heavy disco-style records to a rapper over a simple beat. LL calls this instinct for subtraction a kind of life lesson, saying stripping away often proves more interesting than piling things on.
How LL first reached Rubin 1:07:31
LL tells the story of buying Tie Rock's It's Yours and calling Rick Rubin's number constantly, while his mother, after seeing rejection letters from labels like Sugar Hill, used her tax return to buy him a Korg drum machine. He and Frankie Forbes recorded a demo, Ad Rock heard it and passed it to Rubin, and LL describes riding the subway doing handstands from excitement once Rubin agreed to meet him.
Founding Def Jam together 1:09:30
LL describes meeting Rubin, recording the demo Catch This Break with Jazzy Jay scratching, and playing it for Russell Simmons, who was initially unimpressed until Rubin reworked it. Simmons and Rubin then launched Def Jam as an actual label rather than just a production company, releasing LL's early singles before it grew into the company people know today.
Rubin's taste and honesty 1:10:30
LL credits Rubin's sharp, uncompromising taste, from naming the label Def Jam to approving the name Ladies Love Cool James, as the key to their creative chemistry, since Rubin would tell him honestly when something was not right.
Trusting your gut in the studio 1:12:31
LL Cool J explains that instinct guided his creative choices from age sixteen, even when he and Rick Rubin disagreed. He initially rejected the demo for Going Back to Cali because he hated it, but after hearing adjustments he came around, showing how taste shifts through refinement. In the studio, he would hum ideas and Rick would program them, a true collaboration rather than one person dictating to the other.
Feeling over cleverness in lyrics 1:15:01
He says he always wrote for feeling rather than complex wordplay, comparing it to a joke that makes you laugh versus one that is merely clever. He invokes Quincy Jones, who told him a hitmaker has to forget two-thirds of what he knows, likening overthinking a song to overthinking a kick or a jump shot. Simplicity, he argues, is underrated and hard to achieve, using the song Jessie's Girl as an example of a simple line capturing a feeling many people share.
Becoming famous as a teenager 1:19:01
LL Cool J describes blowing up at sixteen as wild, comparing the experience to the movie Porky's, and says he skipped ordinary teenage milestones like prom without regret. He recalls literally introducing hip-hop to small audiences in Maine, explaining turntables and DJing to people who had never seen it, since there was no industry, managers, or roadmap for the genre yet.
Being consumed by the dream 1:24:00
He says hip-hop already felt like the biggest thing in the world to him personally, long before it became mainstream, and that total immersion in a passion is necessary to succeed. He stresses wanting something with every fiber of your being and never accepting no, even from yourself.
Age is not a deadline 1:25:00
LL Cool J insists dreams have no deadline, citing Colonel Sanders starting Kentucky Fried Chicken at sixty-five and George Foreman's boxing comeback as proof people wrongly limit themselves by age. He argues the real limitation is mental, and that treating life as fixed stages is a choice people make rather than a truth.
Creativity over competition 1:26:30
He suggests people stop competing once stepping out of the arena feels easier, but says life is really about creativity, not competition. Teaching kids to compete is uncertain, he says, while teaching them to create gives them a lasting life skill, and creativity, like Jordan's or Kyrie's on the court, is what elevates any competitor to the next level.
Facing the Mirror Honestly 1:27:30
LL Cool J describes looking in the mirror, seeing his body sag, and deciding right there that he would not accept it. He frames that as a decision, not an easy one, but one that requires persistence. Joe Rogan adds that fear of failure is what stops most people from ever making that kind of choice, holding them back from nearly everything.
Multiverse and Five Years 1:28:30
They discuss the idea of treating life as a series of choices, like a personal multiverse where you can imagine different paths. LL suggests gaming out what your life looks like in five years if you refuse to give up, and even if success still hasn't arrived, the growth itself makes the effort worthwhile, since struggle builds character and expands human potential.
Martial Arts and Humility 1:29:30
Both reflect on martial arts as a vehicle for developing human potential, teaching humility, respect, and manners rather than toughness. They describe the value of visible progression, moving from white belt to blue to black, as a way of marking milestones and reinforcing that hard work and focus pay off over time.
Origins of the Black Belt 1:30:30
LL explains the old idea that black belts were originally white belts that darkened from years of sweat, dirt, and grime through sustained practice, never washed so as not to wash away the skill. They note that truly old black belts eventually wear back to white, and that Brazilian jiu-jitsu masters can even earn a coral, red-and-black belt for lifelong contribution to the art.
Starting Over as Beginners 1:34:00
They talk about the dignity in a known, accomplished person choosing to start as a white belt again, accepting getting tapped out by lower belts as part of the process. Both agree there's value in reclaiming a beginner's mindset, since the excitement of learning something new opens fresh avenues for creativity and thinking.
Rereading One Book for Years 1:36:00
LL describes rereading a single book, like a sword, for three or four years instead of moving on quickly, comparing deep mastery of a text to becoming a black belt in it. Rogan names the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi as deeply formative for him, read many times since youth, alongside early influences like Anthony Robbins for mindset and time management.
Musashi and Harmony 1:38:00
They discuss Musashi, a swordsman who killed around sixty men in one-on-one combat, who insisted on full balance between ruthlessness and artistic pursuits like poetry and calligraphy. LL reframes this as harmony rather than balance, and both admire Musashi's attention to small details, like positioning with the sun at his back or making opponents wait to unsettle them.
Mastery as the Way 1:40:00
They close by connecting Musashi's principles to everyday life, from sword positioning to psychological patience, as all part of what he called the mastery of the way, which once seen can be recognized in anything. LL ties this to mastery of yourself, your vision, and the steps you take, adjusting along the path while still knowing clearly what you want.
Mastery as a Transferable Mindset 1:41:30
LL Cool J talks about how mastery becomes a mindset you can apply to any goal once you understand the stages of success. He distinguishes between being nice, which means seeking approval, and being kind, which means holding boundaries even with people in higher positions. He prefers the word harmony over balance, comparing it to an orchestra where instruments lead at different times rather than staying equal.
Education, Aspiration, and Risk 1:44:30
They discuss how most people want to improve but few are willing to risk failure, often lowering expectations to soften disappointment. LL notes education comes from a root meaning to bring out what's already inside someone. They bring up Steven Pressfield, who was aimless until 40 before writing The War of Art and Legend of Bagger Vance, and the quote that inspiration is for amateurs while professionals go to work.
Mike Tyson Stories and Fear 1:47:31
Mike Tyson's discipline quote leads into memories of LL visiting Tyson in jail and their friendship. They discuss Tyson's trainer Cus D'Amato, who hypnotized him, taught psychology and warrior mentality, and described fear as fire that can cook food or burn the house down. Both agree nervousness before performing means you care, and learning to channel it becomes fuel.
Avoiding Negative People 1:52:02
They advise staying away from people who constantly complain about bad luck, calling that mindset contagious, and stress surrounding yourself with people who push forward instead.
Lost Civilizations and Antarctica 1:53:30
The conversation shifts to pyramids, Atlantis, and permafrost possibly hiding ancient civilizations, including pyramid-like structures spotted in Antarctica and jungle-covered sites in South America.
Ancient Maps and Pyramid Mysteries 1:55:31
You hear speculation about an aerial image that looks like a pyramid with oddly symmetrical sides, followed by talk of old maps, possibly from the 1500s, that seem to show Antarctica before it was covered in ice. The conversation moves to the Antikythera mechanism, the 2,000 year old Greek device with complex gears that functioned like an ancient computer for tracking stars and navigation. Modern scans keep revealing more complexity, and the deeper it is studied, the more puzzling it becomes. The point raised is that human curiosity and creativity have always been the same, so dismissing ancient intelligence or the possibility of life elsewhere is called arrogant.
Less Light Once Sharpened Minds 1:58:01
A theory is floated that ancient people had far less light pollution, so stars appeared closer and clearer, giving them more reason and ability to study the sky closely. Without screens or modern distraction, people stared upward for long stretches, which is suggested as a reason ancient literature and thought turned inward and became more reflective. The night sky and the Milky Way are described as natural art hidden from modern cities by artificial light, something that once seen, shrinks your sense of self-importance.
Black Holes, Wormholes, and Dimensions 2:00:31
Talk turns to black holes, wormholes, and the instinctive sense that faster than light or dimensional travel already exists in principle, the same way the physics of flight existed before humans understood the math. Gravity manipulation and folding space are suggested as the real breakthroughs rather than propulsion. The discussion references string theory's claims of 10, 11, or even 26 space-time dimensions, admitting confusion over what such numbers actually mean, including whether beings from other dimensions could visit ours.
Alien Visits and Four-Dimensional Views 2:04:00
Asked directly whether he thinks we've been visited, LL says he considers it highly probable and would bet yes. A video is discussed showing how a four-dimensional viewer might see past, present, and future simultaneously, compared to an infinity symbol where zooming out from the center reveals all moments happening at once. Deja vu is offered as a small glimpse of that same idea, a blip where a moment feels like it has already happened.
Time Machines and Visiting the Past 2:06:00
A theory on time machines proposes that travel into the past is impossible until the machine itself is invented, because that invention becomes the fixed point every future traveler can return to, making time collapse into something nonlinear once it happens. This is linked to Einstein's idea that time exists only so everything doesn't happen at once. The idea is floated that a time traveler might be able to visit the past without altering it, going unseen by those living in that era, with ancient Rome's flooded Colosseum naval battles and Napoleon's war room offered as desired destinations.
History Will Judge This Era 2:08:30
The conversation turns to how the present will look to people 150 years from now, comparing it to how people now view ancient spectacles, suggesting future generations might be shocked by things happening today the way we are shocked by Roman lion fights. This leads into AI, described as frightening to many people, especially those resistant to technological change, but framed as inevitable, like standing at Niagara Falls and asking not to get wet. The real choice, it is said, is whether to use AI as a tool or let it steamroll you, while acknowledging that jobs will change and blue collar workers have real reasons to feel afraid.
AI as Another Tool in the Chain 2:10:30
LL Cool J argues that artificial intelligence should be seen as another link in human progress, like cars, trains, or nuclear power, all of which carry risk but can't be avoided. He points out the hypocrisy of people hating AI while constantly using ChatGPT and Claude for everything. He believes humans shouldn't be replaced because what matters is the human spark, the creative force behind the pyramids, the Roman Colosseum, Shakespeare, and Miyamoto Musashi. Joe raises concern about who controls AI, and LL suggests no single person will, but that AI may end up controlling itself, which could be better than human control since people often act illogically or unethically, though bias can get built into machine training by engineers.
AI Inventing Its Own Languages 2:13:30
They discuss AI agents that began programming themselves and creating their own languages, including reportedly communicating in Sanskrit on an unoccupied German message board. This leads to a tangent on the beauty of ancient scripts, Sanskrit's roots in the Indus Valley and Indo-Aryan language family dating back to 1400 BCE, and the aesthetic appeal of Arabic, Russian, and Chinese characters. They touch on the Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabharata's descriptions of flying machines and sky wars, wondering if these are myth or memory. The conversation turns to ancient aerodynamic artifacts resembling gliders, Egyptian hieroglyphs for "Stargate," and whether they'd choose to travel through one if return was guaranteed.
Aliens, Loneliness, and Advanced Beings 2:20:31
They imagine leaving Earth with aliens, referencing Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Spielberg's later regret about writing a father who abandons his children. Both agree permanent alien life would likely feel too lonely and strange, comparing it to a caveman overwhelmed by Manhattan or 1980s Harlem, or tribal villagers trying modern food for the first time. They speculate humans might seem primitive compared to far more advanced beings, possibly existing as collective light or consciousness, or in places where physics is reversed. They close by noting scientists often avoid bold speculation because of peer review pressures, and raise the idea of plasma-based life forms as one explanation for mysterious lights seen in the sky.
Third state between life and death 2:25:01
They discuss a scientific finding that cells from a deceased organism can take on new functions after death, a so-called third state, with research into xenobots and anthrobots surviving beyond their host's life, suggesting death itself may shape how life transforms over time.
Time travel and the Large Hadron Collider 2:27:00
The conversation turns to claims that the Large Hadron Collider briefly sent particles backward in time, plus the odd story of a bird dropping bread onto an electrical substation and causing a power cut, which they joke was blamed on a time-traveling bird.
Multiverse fears and parting thanks 2:29:30
They riff on the novel and show Dark Matter, the multiverse, and the danger of powerful technology landing in the wrong hands, quoting Einstein on infinite time and human stupidity, before wrapping up warmly and thanking each other.
Promoting NCIS New York 2:31:00
LL Cool J closes by promoting NCIS New York, naming castmates Scott Khan, Jennifer Bills, Jaclyn Bias, Shane, and Devin Druit, noting the show films across Red Hook, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and the Village, and premieres October 6th.
AI-generated summary. It can be wrong or incomplete - check anything that matters against the original.
